When Jane and I began to create The Defendants Podcast in 2024, the idea to bring Jane and Toronto-based restorative justice advocate Marlee Liss together for a conversation, quickly jumped to the top of my ‘we’ve got to make this happen’ list.
Jane and Marlee are two unstoppable multi-talented creative forces, dedicated to expanding conversations about sexual violence, and advocating for a survivor-centered justice systems that prioritize healing, accountability, and create a real change in how communities respond to harm.
I knew the conversation would be good, and I was correct.
In Conversation with Marlee Liss -
Storytelling, Somatic Healing and Re-Imagining Justice for Violence
Listen as Jane and Marlee Liss discuss healing after sexual violence, reconnecting with your body, why the court system so often fails survivors, and how restorative justice and a rethink of masculinity could offer a better path forward.
About Marlee
Together, Jane and I have long admired Marlee’s work, she is a leading survivor advocate, somatic educator, author and an award-winning speaker on healing, empathy and re-imagining justice for violence.
Marlee’s personal survivor case set precedent in the North American Legal System, and in 2024 she founded Survivors 4 Justice Reform - a global, volunteer-run, survivor-led coalition that works to advance policy change that challenges the failures and violence of punitive, carceral systems.
Marlee is currently working on her memoir ‘If I Had Known Then’ which is set to release on February 9th 2027.
An all-round brilliant woman, Marlee is not only a colleague we admire, but someone that we’re now lucky enough to call a friend.
In this Episode
Throughout the recording, edit and through to today - I seem to uncover a new favourite quote with every listen. Here are 6 quotes from Jane and Marlee that have stayed with me.
“With sexual assault, the crime scene is our bodies… you can leave a house that’s been robbed, but you can’t leave your body.” – Marlee
“The idea of being a witness to my own assault was so jarring. I didn’t just witness it happen – it happened to me.” – Jane
“Any time we say justice is either court or nothing, prison or nothing, we fail a lot of people.” – Marlee
“Justice doesn’t look the same for all survivors. It doesn’t look like every true crime doc that’s trending on Netflix.” – Marlee
“Court completely decenters victims. On paper, our names aren’t even there – it’s the Crown versus the accused.” – Marlee
“Our bodies have wisdom. We can’t just think our way through trauma; we often have to feel our way through it.” – Marlee
Is there a part of the conversation, or quote that stood out to you?
If you liked this episode, I think you might like…
Episode 3 - The Perfect Victim (21 min)
Episode 6 - I Went Through the Justice System and All I Got was a Branded Stress Ball (22 min)
Article - A Letter to Listeners of The Defendants
You’re a good listener, thank you!
YOU are how this project will grow. By listening you are helping new ideas and conversations take shape - both on the podcast, amongst your friends and beyond. Thank you for being here.
Looking to the future
You may have spotted some creative punctuation choices above, maybe a grammatical error or two… you see, for me playing with words comes naturally in conversations, but not on the page. I’ve always been at my best with a camera in hand, Unlike Jane and Marlee, writing is not my strength and hitting publish on Substack scares me.
However, I’m here, I’m writing and I’m acknowledging my strained relationship with correct grammar to hopefully remove the fear (a little) and to help get new episodes out to listeners, as quickly as we can.
I appreciate your kindness & understanding as we grow, and as we correct any spelling mistakes that we catch along the way!
We’re a small team, and we’re currently creating this series alongside our day jobs, meaning we have no budget for a proof-reader, and often waiting for an extra pair of eyes before we hit publish delays an episode or article coming out.
If you love our work and/or a spelling mistake or two really, REALLY bugs you - please consider becoming a paid subscriber, or share an episode with a friend. By helping us grow the support for this series, you’re helping our team (myself, especially) to one-day no longer need this note, and to delete it with joy.
As always, take care of yourself, and thank you for listening.
In it with you,
Rachel
Executive Producer, Creative Director and Video Editor
The Defendants Podcast
If our conversation with Marlee resonated with you, or if you learnt something new, please consider sharing with a friend.
EPISODE SHOW NOTES
This episode explores sexual violence, the criminal legal system, and alternative justice pathways. Take care as you listen and look after yourself.
Key Topics
00:22 - Expanding the conversation
01:04 - Writing after trauma
03:01 - Storytelling and empathy
04:23 - Dance: Detachment & reconnection
07:06 - Somatic healing: Our bodies have wisdom
11:46 - How the criminal legal system fails survivors
16:23 - We don’t have to be complacent
18:37 - Justice doesn’t look the same for all survivors
19:30 - Survivors 4 Justice Reform
22:43 - Accountability
25:26 - The “monster in the bushes” myth
29:09 - Breaking cycles of violence
31:34 - Rethinking masculinity
34:54 - What Marlee wishes more people knew
36:00 - Advocacy & consent culture
39:22 - Where to find Marlee
Resources for Survivors
SA Survivor Resource Document - This document contains Canadian, U.S, and Global sources to find guidance, information, and aid for survivors of sexual assault. Detailed descriptions of each resource within the document.
Links and Mentions
Marlee’s memoir, “If I Had Known Then” will be released in February 2027 with Penguin Random House. Follow @marleeliss on social media for more.
Visit Marlee’s website to find out more, and download her free justice resource
Follow Marlee’s writing on Substack: Marlee Liss - Rehumanize
Find out more about Survivors 4 Justice Reform
Instagram: @survivors4justicereform
Join the coalition: www.survivors4justicereform.com/join
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Get in Touch
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If you want Jane to appear on your show, email Dalton Higgins at daltonhiggins@gmail.com
Our Team
Jane Aster Roe - Executive Producer, Host
Rachel Arundel - Executive Producer, Creative Director
Katie Jensen - Executive Producer, Editor, Sound Designer
Dawson Fleming - Production Assistant
